[MOL] Martha! Where Are You? [00639] Medicine On Line

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[MOL] Martha! Where Are You?

Title: Martha! Where Are You?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem [mailto:MAILER-DAEMON@micron.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 1:47 PM
To: Kathy Corrigan
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

The original message was received at Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:46:45 -0700 (MST)
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>>> RCPT To:<mjt8@netcom.com>
<<< 550 <mjt8@netcom.com>... User unknown
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Title: RE: [MOL] Dearest Kathy!

Martha!!!!!  don't you dare think for one minute that I haven't been
thinking of you!!! You'd better keep writing to me because I love you.  I
need to know how you are, so you'd better tell me.  I think about you every
day, my sweet little Italian.  Love, prayers and hugs -- Kathy, who is doing
okay in Boise!

-----Original Message-----
From: mjt8 [mailto:mjt8@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 1999 3:27 AM
To: Kathy Corrigan
Cc: mjt8
Subject: Re: [MOL] Dearest Kathy!

Please give me a break, awe!  Nobody every takes me serious on this list..I
guess they think I'm just a big dumbo.

Of course he cries and says he's sorry.  This is textbook.  That's why they
do the intervention which I've forgotten the name of, at least in part,
because of my cancer meds.

The trick is you have to prepare beforehand.  You have to get everyone
together he holds near and dear.  Everyone has to say that they will not
stand for his drinking anymore and will not help him.  For example, if he's
drunk and lost his wallet, they won't come pick him up outside of the bar.
He's on his own.  For you, things like you won't call work and tell people
he's sick when he got drunk the night before and really doesn't want to go
in because he has a hangover.

The preparation of everyone beforehand is very important.  They have to mean
it.  This is like building a wall.  There can't be one chink, or it won't
work.  Everyone is important; of course, you meaning it is the most
important.  You have to search your soul and really see what you want to do.

When I went to school about alcoholism counseling, I went to a fancy rehab.
It was part of school.  Most corporations, like where Jerry works, will pay
for this.  Usually, there's Eap, (I don't know, maybe employee alcohol
prevention), counselor somewhere in a big company.  They will have a list
even of places they cover.  Most have a limit, i.e., they will do this only
a couple of times.  So if he comes back and fucks up, they'll send him
again--usually I think, maybe three  times and you're fired.

Anyway, at the rehab where I went, it turned out that pretty much everyone
that worked there were ex-alcoholics.  I went to one of the opening
lectures...the guy there scared me and I've always gotten sleepy after about
2 drinks.  They go to all kinds of counseling.  They will bring you in and
talk to you.   They may do some roleplay of typical interchange between the
two of you in the house.  They are very good at spotting malingerers.  He
isn't likely to get away with that.

It is possible to be "in recovery" from alcoholism just like you can be "in
remission" from cancer.  You might get sick again, he might have a slip.  It
is part of who you both are and if you want to be together part of what you
both have to accept about the other.

I forgot, after the family intervention, you all have a contract with him.
It might be he goes to the rehab and if he fucks up, you're filing for
divorce.  Whatever...that's up to you.  Just like with death, the first
hurdle for an alcoholic is to get over denial---I think you would want him
to say that at the family intervention, nice and loud so everyone can hear

At the rehab, you get introduced to AA.  There's a group for you too, that
is for family members.  I've forgotten already what they call it...I
remember COA(children of alcoholics), but enough about my memory.

AA is really cool.  When I went to school to learn about alcoholism
counseling, they made us go to a rehab and also to a lot of AA meetings.
After I finished the program, I kind of missed going.  They are really a
kind of genius move by the guy who thought them up.  Unless they drink less
in Utah than in NY, there are meetings all over.  So if he doesn't like the
people at one, he can go to another.

Now that I've thoroughly pissed you off by sticking my big nose in your
problems and giving you all this information, I will go away.  I know you
won't be thinking of me either when I go to the hospital on Monday and the
doctor tells me whether I'm going to have to shave my head and go back on
chemo or not.

It's been nice knowing you too.


-----Original Message-----
From: jerry corrigan <justbear@email.msn.com>
To: mol-cancer@lists.meds.com <mol-cancer@lists.meds.com>
Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MOL] Dearest Kathy!

>Dear Martha:  As always, your wisdom has me in awe.  Everything you said is
>true.  I don't know, frankly, if I want to try to repair the marriage or
>not.  It seems to me that every time he promises to "do better," he lets me
>down worse than the time before!  The promises he makes when he's sober are
>so easily broken once he's had "a few."  As in most alcoholics, he has at
>least two personalities -- sometimes more -- but the drunk is definitely
>my favorite!  Today he is contrite -- begging me to reconsider.  Tears and
>apologies abound.  As soon as he has two beers, he'll be back in my face --
>I know it.  I've been there too many times.  I don't know that I even want
>to consider counseling.  From what I've seen, alcoholics are such
>manipulators, they even try to "con" the counselors, which is, of course,
>counter-productive.  He has a short day today.  He won't be drunk when he
>gets off work, so perhaps we'll be able to talk intelligently then.  I
>stop talking about it anymore.  I'm just too good at hiding things -- been
>doing it all my life, and it's a hard habit to break!  Thanks for being
>for me, Marth.  Hope you're feeling okay.  Love, Kathy
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mjt8 <mjt8@ix.netcom.com>
>To: mol-cancer@lists.meds.com <mol-cancer@lists.meds.com>
>Cc: mjt8 <mjt8@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 9:42 PM
>Subject: [MOL] Dearest Kathy!
>>I was so sorry to hear about Jerry.  I remember when I was a kid I'd
>>ask my mom why everyone clapped when a couple on an interview or game show
>>would tell the host how long they'd been married.  Of course, she would
>>always laugh.
>>Everybody's different, and of course, I don't know too much because I'm
>>there.  Also, I am trying to read everybody's posts to you--some have info
>>not in others.  I've seen in doing counseling with people that
>>and violence just seem to go along, so many times with the alcoholism.  I
>>would go so far as to say that the drinking causes the fooling around and
>>violent behavior.  Of course, that wouldn't make me feel much better, if
>>husband was doing this to me either.
>>Stop not telling people.  If you want to stay with him, you particularly
>>going to need the help of everyone he holds near and dear.  An alcoholism
>>counselor can run for you a nice little intervention.  Basically, you go
>>around the room and every person tells him that they will not help him in
>>any manner unless he goes into a 30 day rehab.  That would be one where
>>not allowed to leave.  And maybe he would need five days in a hospital to
>>detoxify himself.
>>I am worried, because one post said something about him hurting you.
>>of course, is not to be born.  Maybe you could take a smaller steps like
>>order of protection and separation?
>>Or if you want the divorce, find a good shark to kick his butt and leave
>>you, for the most part, out of it.  He would not seem, to be in very good
>>shape to contest the divorce.
>>If Jerry has to leave the house, I like your idea about your brother.  A
>>of times, when we are feeling very low, there's nothing like the company
>>someone we've shared such important memories with.
>>Please don't feel bad about the "wife to him" crap.  That's really the
>>alcohol talking.  You know your beauty shines from your soul, and from
>>picture, you're a pretty lady on the outside too.
>>It comes down to, I guess, If you lose Jerry, have you lost anything. If
>>think you have, try to fix things.  If there was nothing good there for a
>>long time, than don't cry dear because you didn't lose anything you
>>Don't forget the positives you have in your life in home, work, health and
>>I send you a lot of hugs, squeezes and  pats on the head,
>>P.S.:  Just let me know if you want to come and I'll fix up the spare
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